A Day of Action to save NASA science

Sarah Al-Ahmed: A Day of Action to Save NASA Science, this week on Planetary Radio. I'm Sarah Al-Ahmed of The Planetary Society with more of the human adventure across our solar system and beyond. On October 6th, 2025, hundreds of space advocates from across the United States joined The Planetary Society and 20 partner organizations in Washington DC for a Day of Action to protect NASA's science budget. They met with Congress members, held a press conference on the steps of the Capitol and shared one message, save NASA Science. This comes at one of the most challenging moments in NASA's history. The agency faces a proposed 47% cut to the budget for its science programs, all while the federal government remains shut down. Thousands of scientists, engineers, and contractors are facing weeks of uncertainty and many fear losing their jobs or seeing their life's work halted. But amid the chaos, this moment brought something powerful, hope and determination.

People from every corner of the country stood together to defend exploration and the pursuit of space science. In this episode, you'll hear from Ari Koeppel, AAAS Science & Technology Policy Fellow and Space Policy intern at The Planetary Society. Britney Schmidt, Planetary Scientist at Cornell University and Member of The Planetary Society's Board of Directors. And speakers from the Capitol Hill Press Conference, including Bill Nye, CEO of The Planetary Society; Representative Glenn Ivey of Maryland's Fourth District; Marcel Agüeros, President-Elect of the American Astronomical Society; and Brandon Jones, President of the American Geophysical Union. Then we'll check in with Casey Dreier, The Planetary Society's Chief of Space Policy as he reflects on the impact of this historic event and what comes next. And finally, Bruce Betts, our Chief Scientist, joins me for What's Up to explore the big cosmic mysteries we could solve in the coming years if we continue to invest in the science that makes exploration possible.

If you love Planetary Radio and want to stay informed about the latest space discoveries, make sure you hit that subscribe button on your favorite podcasting platform. By subscribing, you'll never miss an episode filled with new and awe-inspiring ways to know the cosmos and our place within it. Before this Day of Action began, I wanted to understand what it feels like to someone stepping into space policy at this pivotal moment. Dr. Ari Koeppel is The Planetary Society's first American Association for the Advancement of Science or AAAS Science & Technology Policy Fellow and a space policy intern working in our new Washington DC office. He's a planetary geoscientist whose research has taken him from the dunes of Namibia to the glacial waters of the Northwest Passage, studying how our planet can teach us about the worlds beyond it.

Ari has served on the science teams for NASA's Curiosity and Perseverance Rovers, as well as the THEMIS instrument aboard Mars Odyssey. After years of exploring how ice behaves on Earth and Mars, Ari decided to bring that same curiosity to the policy arena, helping shape the decisions that make space science possible. I caught up with him just a few days before the Day of Action to talk about why he made that leap and what this moment means for scientists facing an uncertain future.

Hey, Ari, thanks for joining me.

Ari Koeppel: Hi, Sarah. Great to be here with you.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: And welcome to The Planetary Society. You're our newest intern.

Ari Koeppel: It is so fun to be a part of this organization, especially at this pivotal moment for advocacy in space science.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: It really is a pivotal moment. Not only are we coming up on our Day of Action in just a few days, we're recording this ahead of time, but we're also currently in the middle of a government shutdown, which changes the context of everything that's about to happen.

Ari Koeppel: Yes, it does. I was actually, I spent much of yesterday at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Maryland where I got to speak with a bunch of colleagues there who are gearing up, or at least yesterday were gearing up for the shutdown and there's a lot of anxiety right now. So I'm hoping that we can put our heads together and make some real waves during our Day of Action coming up next week.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: Well, I'm glad we have you and everybody else that's going to be out there in Washington DC. This is honestly our largest Day of Action in the history of the organization, but we've also added you to our space policy team in a very key moment. And you've had such a diverse career. Usually when we bring people on that are going to space policy, law and space law in particular is their aim. But you came at this from a scientist's perspective. You have fieldwork in Namibia, you've been to the Arctic permafrost, you worked on Curiosity and Perseverance. So what sparked this leap from being in science to now going into space policy?

Ari Koeppel: I've always been interested in the big picture. Science is normally done at a very minute level. Many of my colleagues working on really, really interesting projects, but often making incremental changes in those fields and I was perfectly happy doing that during my PhD and during my postdocs. So my background is that I have a PhD in astronomy and planetary science from Northern Arizona University and I did actually a postdoc at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, which is one of the reasons I have a lot of friends there still. And most recently was working at Dartmouth College as a postdoc working on a bunch of different projects with students and faculty there. That's all to say that I was experiencing this feeling that if we end up in a future where people like me can't work on those projects, what's the point of working on them right now? If we're making small changes, what are we actually building towards?

And so, it occurred to me that the best place that I could actually put my energy towards would be in advocating for the ongoing efforts of the US in pushing for space exploration, which without those efforts, there's really not a clear path for scientists like me. And so, one of the feelings that I was experiencing at Goddard yesterday was a lot of anxiety around not only the shutdown, but around a future in this career amongst my colleagues in science. And so, the reason I've decided to join The Planetary Society at this time is to really be an advocate and a champion for folks like me who are fearing that this career path might not be viable.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: I feel that so deeply in my bones. There are so many people I know who are so scared that they're about to not just be furloughed but potentially laid off. This could be a moment where we see a large number of people leave NASA and we've already seen almost a quarter of NASA workers leave in this past year. So I imagine that that tension is palpable, but also that gives you a different context to go and speak to our congresspeople about this moment. What are some of the things that have happened in your personal life that you think you're going to be carrying into those conversations?

Ari Koeppel: I wouldn't describe myself as just a scientist entering policy for the first time. As I said, I like to think about the big picture behind everything I work on and I actually have experience advocating for things I care about. For example, I spent a summer while I was in college touring the country on a bus powered on vegetable oil to show that you can do such a thing and you don't need to rely on fossil fuels to drive around the country. And during that experience, we were organizing events and cities all around the country and I loved it. I loved getting to meet people, especially people who were excited about technologies that could help our species survive on this planet. And I was hoping to branch out beyond my science and take those experiences from when I was advocating for things like vegetable oil as a fuel and be able to advocate for the type of scientific exploration that I was starting to build a career out of from the science perspective. And now I'm hoping to dig in more towards the advocacy perspective.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: What has your experience been like so far working with Jack and Casey on the Hill?

Ari Koeppel: Oh, they are so skilled, so articulate, and so well connected. It's been really impressive and a really great learning opportunity for me. My network has largely been scientists and science communicators and not necessarily decision makers. But now as Jack's shadow, I've been able to make a lot of connections very quickly, meeting with senators, meeting with organization executives, and really promoting the message of The Planetary Society.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: Well, it's got to be a really interesting moment to be in this. It's part of why you went into it, but we're just in such a critical moment. This proposed 47% cut to NASA's science budget is absolutely devastating. And as you're having these conversations with policymakers, what would you say are some of maybe the biggest misconceptions that they're having about NASA's science budget in this moment?

Ari Koeppel: Yeah, there are a few. The main one is this failure to understand how scientists actually operate on the day-to-day. I think there is a perception that science is directed and what I mean by that is that the top officials at an organization like NASA are telling scientists what to work on. That is not true in the science community. Part of what makes the journey as a scientist so special is that scientists get to explore the things that they're excited about. So they come up with, they conceive of a project idea that is really inspiring for them and they think will help progress the field and be exciting for the public. And they put that together into a proposal and then figure out how they can get that proposal funded.

I think decision makers have historically had a hard time recognizing that scientists work in this creative way where what they're doing is on the boundaries of something very technical and something very artistic. It's a very creative endeavor. And for scientists to continue working in that capacity, that creative capacity, they need to continue getting the research program funding. So there's been a lot of talk over saving NASA missions. That's very, very important. We also need to be helping save the research programs that are funded through the Science Mission Directorate.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: Absolutely. There's so much there. I think that's not just a misconception among people in Congress but also just among the broader public, and that's something really important to share. And this is going to be a moment for you to literally go into Congress once more with hundreds of people and continue to share this message. This is your first Day of Action in person, is that right?

Ari Koeppel: That's true.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: What are you looking forward to?

Ari Koeppel: I am looking forward to all the new connections I'm going to make and the feeling of excitement and power behind the over 300 registrants that we have for this Day of Action in delivering a message to the decision makers in our country that this is something the American public cares about. We care about exploration, we care about creative science, we care about understanding our place in the universe and where we came from. And I am excited to be a part of that movement.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: Well, this is just one moment in our all-year-round advocacy for space exploration, so you still have much to come left in your fellowship. What else are you looking forward to doing or what else are you hoping to get out of your time at The Planetary Society?

Ari Koeppel: It's been a fun journey so far. I've only been a part of The Planetary Society for a few weeks now and I already feel like I have learned a lifetime's worth of skills working with Jack and Casey. My mind is an open slate at this point. I have some specific projects in mind that I'm hoping I can bring my skills to The Planetary Society to help implement, make some fun graphics that update our use of data from the Science Mission Directorate. But those are specific projects. More so the thing I'm most excited about is just to continue growing this network that already feels like it's quintupled in the last week and meeting more people and developing connections so that we as an organization can continue growing our presence in Washington.

I know that was a big part of wanting to hire a fellow at The Planetary Society. With me joining Jack, we now have twice as many people in Washington DC. And so, being able to get to a point where I'm no longer shadowing Jack, but out on my own in Congressional meetings, in Senate meetings, and building those relationships that can help foster trust in delivering our message about the things we care about.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: I think that's something about going to the Day of Action in person that didn't really truly hit me until I was there. It's just how human this whole thing is. That person-to-person connection, those conversations is really what drives this. Sending letters to Congress is absolutely a powerful way to do this, but when someone sits in front of you and shares what they love and what they hope for, it's a completely different context. So this isn't just something that's going to benefit you. I think having you there and being another face for why this is something that's so powerful is going to be just absolutely pivotal, especially in this moment.

Ari Koeppel: That's a great point, Sarah, and let me just add, it doesn't matter what side of the aisle you are on or what side of the aisle your representative is on. We're having conversations human to human, and the Congressional staffers and the representatives themselves, they're humans and they are great conversationalists. And so, it's fun. No matter what the policy stances are, it's fun to just make these human connections, and build relationships, and build trust. And I think that is really one thing I've learned that's what makes this city run.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: It really does. And I've had so much fun being in those meetings in person just talking about people, no matter what their level of understanding is about space, whether it's talking about why Venus is hot or why we need Mars sample return. Just having those conversations with our congresspeople not only makes me feel like I'm doing something good for the world, but also it gives me true hope that by sharing that joy, we'll actually be able to accomplish this. We'll be actually able to get the money that we need to fund all the scientists. So I'm so happy for you and everybody else that's going to be there to have this experience because I think it's going to be really fun. You've not only done this in person before, but doing it with hundreds of other people, that's a different thing entirely.

Ari Koeppel: Yeah. Thank you, Sarah, for your blessings at this time. We're going to need all the enthusiasm and energy that we can get. We have over 250 meetings with congresspeople already scheduled, and so we're going to need all the background auras that we can get from throughout the cosmos. So thank you for welcoming me to this organization and I'm super excited to be a part of these efforts.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: Well, I hope you have a beautiful time and I'm so looking forward to getting to know you more as you continue on with your time at The Planetary Society.

Ari Koeppel: Likewise, Sarah. Thanks.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: Ari's story is just one example of how deeply people care about protecting NASA Science, but he wasn't alone in Washington. 20 organizations joined forces with The Planetary Society for this historic Day of Action. A coalition that included the American Astronomical Society, the American Geophysical Union, Black In Astro, the National Space Society, and so many others. Together, they brought more than 300 advocates from across the United States to Capitol Hill representing students and educators, engineers and scientists, and everyday space fans. All of them traveled at their own expense to make sure that space science remains a US national priority.

Among them was Dr. Britney Schmidt, Planetary Scientist at Cornell University and Member of The Planetary Society's Board of Directors. Britney has joined us for many Days of Action in the past, helping advocate for missions like Europa Clipper and Dragonfly. This year she called me from the halls of Congress to share what it's like on the ground as hundreds of voices came together to defend the future of space science. Hey, Britney.

Britney Schmidt: Hey, Sarah. How's it going?

Sarah Al-Ahmed: Doing really well. I know that we've spent so much time at the Day of Action together going between people's offices, but I'm not currently there, so thanks for calling in and to let us know how it's going.

Britney Schmidt: Oh, absolutely. Happy to do so. It's been a fun day so far. A long day yesterday getting ready, and we're all amped to be here.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: Well, this is the largest Day of Action we've ever had so far. There's over 300 participants at this point. What has it been like with that big of an audience?

Britney Schmidt: Well, we've had a huge response, so what's great about it is that we're actually able to make 38 different offices plus DC represented. And so, that's allowing us to basically reach almost the entire country in terms of representation.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: It's kind of a different environment from the previous Days of Action we've been through. We had some kind of inkling that we would be seeing these massive budget cuts during our Day of Action earlier this year. But now that it's actually on paper, I'm sure it feels very different. What are the sentiments that you're getting from the other people that are participating in the Day of Action right now?

Britney Schmidt: Well, I think people are just as committed as we are to making sure that NASA stays a major priority for the United States. And we've heard that not just from the participants, but also from the staff members representing all of the Congressional districts that we've spoken with so far.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: Has it been any different since we're currently in a government shutdown? Has it been harder to get into the buildings or see people?

Britney Schmidt: It's definitely a different experience. Most of the entrances are closed down, so the lines are longer. It's definitely quieter here. Only one of the food halls has been open, but luckily we're all able to grab a quick lunch and get to work.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: Well, you tend to come every single year to this event, and that's not something that we see from everybody that works with The Planetary Society. Clearly, it takes a lot of activation energy to get out to Washington DC. Why is this something that you're so passionate about that you end up coming every time you get a chance?

Britney Schmidt: Well, one of the things that I have become aware of just as a part of participating in policy work is that it always feels better to be part of the solution than to be on the sidelines. The way I explain it to people is that you're turning what feels like a mountain into a game of inches, into actionable pieces that we can all work on together. And so when you get a chance to go and visit your office, share your enthusiasm, share your interests, help the office with information they might need about how space policy works, about how decisions in Congress affect their district, their state, and affect the people that live there, then it really helps the process work. I really believe that civic engagement is something that we've largely lost in the country, and the more people we can be bringing into the process, the better. It just feels better and then the whole system works better.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: Well, we've clearly gotten a lot more people involved this year, which also means that we have a lot of people who are doing this for the first time. Have you spoken with some of the people who are nervous to entry here and what's been the experience like during training?

Britney Schmidt: Absolutely. One of my favorite things about this is that we've been able to bring in new perspectives. Myself, I was able to bring students, so we brought a team of 10 different people from Cornell, mostly PhD students in a range of NASA-related disciplines as well as some staff. And so they've been excited. It's been an honor to see them engage with the staff for the representatives, and they've been really excited. And they're incredibly effective and passionate communicators. So I think seeing those nerves turn into excitement and action has been just a wonderful upside of bringing so many people together. It's been a great networking opportunity. I'm sitting here joining you from the basement of the Longworth building where I am seeing Save NASA Science buttons all over the place. We've really kind of taken over the House side today with lots of enthusiasm. It's kind of neat to see that in this crowd of people.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: Well, we are just beginning the day and you're about to go into a whole new thing. The press conference is about to start soon. What would you say are some of your favorite moments from the last two days of being there?

Britney Schmidt: My favorite moments were actually seeing how many people's first time it was and how many people's fifth time it was. So during the trainings, we were giving people everything from basic information on how the government works to detailed information on how their district works. And so, kind of getting to see people interacting with that information and coming up with plans at the state and district level to engage with their representatives is really, really cool to see. It's just nice to see the elbow grease all come together and see people connect. I've met wonderful people. I've got to reconnect with our group and with new and more engaged members. I'm really, really hopeful that this will set the stage for future work. In particular, it's been really cool to see the number of scientists that have joined our usual cadre of really enthusiastic people from across the country.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: That is really cool. And some of my favorite moments are always getting to know the people that are in the group that I'm rolling around with. Right? You get to learn so much from them.

Britney Schmidt: Oh, absolutely. No, it's really been fun. Seeing the students putting together and passing their business cards across to the members has been really, really cool.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: Well, the press conference is about to start soon. I know everyone's gearing up to get over there, so thank you so much for taking the time to call in and share this with us. And for once more being in Washington DC and helping to be that voice that we need to save NASA Science. This is just such an important moment right now, and knowing that so many of you are out there is really adding light to my day. So thank you so much.

Britney Schmidt: Absolutely. I mean, it would be hard to ignore the number of people and the enthusiasm that we've brought here to DC. So I'm hopeful for a return to a functioning government and for a bright future for NASA.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: Well, save NASA Science.

Britney Schmidt: Save NASA Science.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: Thanks for joining us.

Britney Schmidt: Bye.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: Bye. We'll be right back with the rest of our Day of Action to Save NASA Science after this short break.

Bruce Betts: For over 45 years, members of The Planetary Society have teamed up to crowdfund science and technology projects like LightSail, The Hundred Earths Project, PlanetVac, and so many more. The STEP grant program continues that concept, but uses an open call for proposals to cast our net far and wide to find the best projects. The first two rounds of STEP grant winners have done great stuff ranging all the way from developing a new technique for studying near-earth asteroids to doing a careful comparison of different ways to grow edible plants in space. We're once again going to invite the brightest minds worldwide to discover the next breakthroughs in our third round of grants, and we need your help. This vital scientific research will be made possible with your support.

Right now, funding cuts at NASA and the National Science Foundation are threatening scientific research. There's never been a more urgent time to support independent scientific funding. This is real space science and technology funded by you. Donations given today will go directly to the next round of STEP grant winners. Please join us in this crucial endeavor by making a gift today at planetary.org/STEP. Thank you.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: As Britney described, that energy was everywhere. Advocates and Save NASA Science buttons and Blue Planetary Society pins filled the halls of Congress sharing their stories and the love of exploration with anyone who would listen. That momentum carried all the way to the steps of the US Capitol where leaders from across the scientific community gathered before the cameras for a press conference. They talked about what's at stake for NASA, but also for the people behind the discoveries.

Danielle Gunn: Thank you so much for taking the time to be here today. We really, really appreciate it. I'm Danielle Gunn. I'm Chief Communications Officer for The Planetary Society. We're the world's largest independent space interest organization and we are here today at the Capitol to speak up against the staggering unprecedented cuts being proposed to NASA's science budget. We have gathered a coalition of 20 national space science and educational organizations who have brought a combined 300 advocates from all over the country who are walking the halls of Congress right now to speak with their representatives and urge them to fund NASA Science. We will hear from select speakers today, including Bill Nye, CEO of The Planetary Society; Representative Glenn Ivey of Maryland's Fourth District; Marcel Agüeros, President-Elect of the American Astronomical Society; and Brandon Jones, President of the American Geophysical Union. So we will go ahead and get started with our first speaker, Bill Nye, CEO of The Planetary Society. He's joined by members of our board of directors, Newton Campbell, Bethany Ehlmann, Britney Schmidt, and Robert Picardo.

Bill Nye: Good afternoon. Good afternoon. I'm Bill Nye, CEO of The Planetary Society, an organization representing nearly 50,000 people around the globe. Every day citizens like you and me who believe the exploration of space is worthy use of our intellect and treasure. We are all here today. 20 national organizations have come together. Over 300 supporters from every corner of the country have traveled here on their own dime and on their own time to walk the halls of Congress and save NASA Science. This is not a luxury, it is a responsibility. Article I, section 8, clause 8 of the US Constitution recommends to Congress that they promote the progress of science and useful arts. It's in the Constitution, so commercial companies may provide transportation to orbit and they may provide some major spacecraft components, but when it comes to exploration, there is no private option. There is no business case for the search for extraterrestrial life.

There is no profit to be made studying Saturn's mysterious polar storm. No one is cashing in on whatever dark matter does to influence the motion of our galaxies and other galaxies in the cosmos. Yet NASA Science is a bargain, for every dollar spent at least three come back into the economy. Last year, NASA's investment in science generated more than $20 billion of economic growth and supported over 80,000 jobs in all 50 states. NASA's exploration of space is where as Teddy Roosevelt says, "We dare mighty things." Cuts to NASA Science will not make the US stronger, investing in it will. Let's keep the United States, the world leader in space for all of us and for generations to come. Thank you. Thank you very much. Now it is my honor. It is my honor to introduce a man who hails from my mother's home state, the great state of Maryland, ladies and gentlemen, Glenn Ivey.

Glenn Ivey: This is an important day, important moment to be out here. And I appreciate the fact that they've come out in such large numbers to make the point that this is a critical moment for the United States when it comes to science and NASA in particular, the White House almost wants to zero out NASA Science. And if you look at the other cuts across the board with respect to NIH and other key departments and agencies, we're doing all the wrong things. We need to, instead of choking off the pipeline of talent, we need to expand it so we can bring more people. I was a kid when we first started landing on the moon, and I remember we'd roll the TVs into the classroom so you could actually see it. And it inspired a whole generation of scientists watching that and just imagining what was possible and wanting to be part of that.

We need to make sure we continue to do that work, continue to inspire the next generation, give them paths forward. Whether it's respect to college, or graduate school, or internships and fellowships at places like NASA so they can learn how to do the work from the people who've been doing it for decades and learning how to make a difference for the public sector here in the United States, but also for the world. So I think it's critical for us to make sure that the United States continues maximum funding. I think the House and the Senate were moving in a much better direction than the White House. I hope the House recedes to the Senate because they had even more money in there for the science expansion efforts, but we need to keep that going.

So it's going to be a pivotal time when we get back. I don't know when we're going to get back, but we know when we do, it's going to be an important moment to make sure we hash this out, commit ourselves to funding science moving forward so we can win the future just like as we have in the past. So with that, I'll turn it back, but thanks so much to all of you all for coming out. Keep up the great work.

Danielle Gunn: And now we have Marcel Agüeros from the American Astronomical Society, President-Elect.

Marcel Agüeros: Thank you. Thank you all for being here. My name is Marcel Agüeros, I'm a Professor of Astronomy at Columbia University in New York City, and I'm the President-Elect of the American Astronomical Society, the AAS. The AAS represents more than 8,000 astronomers and astronomy educators. Our mission is to enhance and share humanity's scientific understanding of the universe as a diverse and inclusive astronomical community. I'm here today to request continued support for Congress in advancing this mission, especially in light of the existential threat that astronomy and science as a whole are facing from the President's budget request. Speaking to you today on behalf of AAS is not something I could have imagined 22 years ago when NASA changed the course of my career by awarding me a Harriet Jenkins Predoctoral Fellowship, and I'm wearing my Jenkins pin with pride. This opportunity set me on a path to be an eager user of NASA's satellite telescopes, and I've been privileged to use data from the Hubble Space Telescope, the Chandra X-ray Observatory, the Kepler Space Telescope, and the Transiting Exoplanet Survey Satellite or TESS.

And I want to emphasize that I'm naming these missions because each of them represents a groundbreaking marriage of science and technology that has transformed our understanding. And not just of some obscure physical process that might be of interest to a few of us, but of our place in the universe. And my favorite example of this is that when I was in college, it was still unclear whether there were planets outside of the solar system, something that people had debated at least since antiquity. After Kepler launched in 2009, it quickly became clear that there are planets everywhere. We now think that on average, there is a planet for every star in our galaxy. That is a profound change in our perspective. Having this personal history with NASA is part of what makes seeing the proposed cuts to existing telescopes and the proposed underfunding of NASA's next great observatory, the Nancy Grace Roman Space Telescope, so devastating.

NASA has shown an exceptional ability to maintain and repurpose telescopes like Hubble well past their nominal end dates so that the missions in space today are carrying out cutting edge science that nobody imagined when they launched. The Roman Space Telescope is the next entry in this list of missions pushing the limits of discovery. Roman will not only revolutionize our understanding of dark matter and dark energy, it is expected to add 100,000 planets to our census. Roman is on budget and ahead of schedule. Under investing in it today would not only result in a major scientific loss, it would be a major waste of taxpayer dollars. NASA is also essential to the nation as we train the next generation of scientists. Some of that training is possible because of the NASA grants that support early career researchers as in the fellowship I received.

But I also want to highlight the impact of other NASA programs such as the National Space Grant College and Fellowship Project. In New York State alone, Space Grant has allowed more than 80,000 students to intern at universities science centers and private companies. At Columbia, Space Grant also invested in our department's public outreach program, which reaches thousands of New Yorkers every year from kindergartners to retirees. NASA's ability to touch the lives of aspiring scientists and of ordinary people remains unmatched. To close, I want to remind us that NASA is part of a broader ecosystem. The National Science Foundation's support of researchers at all career stages is another key ingredient in the success of our field. And the telescopes built and operated by the National Science Foundation and the Department of Energy are indispensable counterparts to our space-based observatories. The Vera C. Rubin Observatory recently released its first astonishing images, and if you haven't seen them, I highly encourage you to look them up.

And next year we'll start on what will be a 10-year movie of the night sky. Data from the Rubin Observatory when combined with data from the Roman Space Telescope will enable even higher quality science than either of these facilities will produce on their own. It is therefore critical that Congress provide robust support not only for NASA Science, but for all of our science agencies. I'm very grateful that Congress has rejected many of the drastic cuts proposed in the President's budget request. I hope that today's very visible groundswell of support will further encourage Congress to fully fund and defend NASA, the National Science Foundation, and the other science agencies that together are amongst our nation's crown jewels. Thank you very much for your time.

Danielle Gunn: Now we have Brandon Jones, president of the American Geophysical Union.

Brandon Jones: Good afternoon everyone. As was mentioned, I'm Brandon Jones, President of AGU. We are a global organization, the largest professional society for earth and space scientists in the world. We have over 40,000 members across 200 countries and regions. But I'm here also today to talk about the personal impacts of funding cuts over this past year. I just took early retirement last week from the National Science Foundation where I served as a program director for almost 10 years, and prior to that at another science agency for over 12 years. So I have 20 plus years in the federal government and also working with a professional society to make sure that the research enterprise is as viable and as bolstered as it can be. NSF has been an innovation engine, but those innovations and those discoveries that come out of that basic research have to have somewhere to go.

And so, when NSF partners with organizations and agencies like NASA to make sure that those innovations move into spaces, no pun intended, where they can be applied, this is for the benefit of all of society. And during my time at NSF, I mainly worked on workforce development and broadening participation efforts to make sure that all Americans who were interested in science could have that opportunity and make sure they have those experiences. So now we're facing a group or a generation of early career scientists, high school, undergrad, graduate, postdocs, even early career assistant professors at institutions who have just come out of a global pandemic, pushed their way through, and now they're facing this.

And so, it is up to us as agencies, as professional societies to continue to build the coalitions that will stand the time-honored tradition of sustainability in the sciences. And make sure the ecosystem that we know drives the economy and makes the US a leader in science remains. So in closing, I just want to thank everyone that has come out today and all the coalitions. Representative Ivey, I live in Maryland, so thank you so much for what you do for the state. I grew up watching you, so it is an honor for me to be here to speak with them. So thank you all for everything you're doing.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: By the time evening fell on Washington DC, the Capitol had quieted. But the energy of the day was still buzzing among our space advocates. After hundreds of meetings and a whirlwind of press interviews, the advocates gathered to celebrate what they'd accomplished. Bill Nye, our CEO, and Casey Dreier, our chief of space policy, had spent the day speaking to news outlets across the country and around the world from ABC and CBS to CNN and the BBC. But then, away from the cameras and the crowds, it was time to take stock. I sat down remotely with Casey Dreier to reflect on a remarkable day and the road ahead.

Hey, Casey.

Casey Dreier: Hey, Sarah.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: What a day? I have been seeing so many wonderful images out of the Day of Action, but you've been all over the news today.

Casey Dreier: Well, me and Bill and frankly 300 of our finest advocates from around the country showing up on pictures shared on these news sites. It's been a wild day and we're just really obviously delighted by the press coverage we've received from it. It's clearly hitting a nerve.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: Well, the last two days have been an absolute whirlwind. We've got hundreds of advocates, 20 organizations, and I've been seeing these Save NASA Science buttons all over Congress. So what is it feeling like to you and the rest of the team right now as you're wrapping up this Day of Action?

Casey Dreier: Beyond just pure exhaustion, I think it's really just inspiring, frankly, to see so many people. This is our largest Day of Action ever by a lot, more than double our previous high. We had, again, as you mentioned, all these partner organizations. We had this press conference in front of the Capitol building with members of Congress and leaders of our partner organizations, the AGU and the AAS. It's really, really inspiring them, but fundamentally though that we saw all the people and that they were here under their own dime on their own time to care and advocate for something that's just so fundamental to be reminded of why we're doing this. This real commitment that we've seen from our advocates is just it gets me and it gets me every time and just makes me, and Jack, and all the team here at the society just want to double down and work as hard as we can to save NASA Science.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: What has it been like coordinating with so many different organizations at once for this event today?

Casey Dreier: Frankly, surprisingly straightforward. I'd say because we focused on NASA Science and keeping NASA Science whole. Everyone understands that we are in an existential crisis for NASA Science, and this is not the time to find small disagreements, but we are really reminded what we all fundamentally care about. And we had great partnership with all these organizations and we're grateful that they worked with us.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: I know it's an interesting time in Congress right now. All of this stuff is going on against a backdrop of a government shutdown. So what has it been like actually seeing the people in their offices and what has the reception been like?

Casey Dreier: Yeah, obviously, when we planned this, we didn't anticipate. We didn't intentionally come during a government shutdown. The goal was to have Congress open, but we couldn't cancel at the last minute when the government did shut down because, again, the people who are coming, we'd have to ask them to cancel their flights and their hotel reservations. And you don't get your money back from that kind of stuff. So we are committed because of our citizen advocates that this is where we had to, as I told them, the way that we've been, we've kind of seen it from this whole year. We have to adapt and be flexible as advocates this year. And so we moved forward with it. But a lot of members of Congress that kept their offices open, those Congressional staff were gracious with their time. They're not getting paid right now, but they're working and they met with their advocates.

We saw a number of members of Congress at the same time. A lot of them had gone home, that was the other challenge, that a lot of Congress is out in session now because of all the other stuff. But some of them came in and we're able to talk to the members themselves. So in some ways, because of the shutdown, we actually had more time to talk about space science because there was less business on the media calendar for the staff. And that's really great opportunity to develop that. And frankly, again, we were here 300 people. We provided something optimistic to talk about, something unifying to talk about. We emphasized again and again, this isn't about convincing Congress to undo these cuts. Congress has agreed functionally, right?

We have seen Congress, both House and Senate, reject these cuts through their appropriations bills. The last step is just getting them into law. And so, we are here to encourage them to finish the job, to thank them for the work that they've done, to encourage them to use the best of both House and Senate bills together and then really develop beyond that. So it was an optimistic message the whole time.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: Have there been any personal moments so far that have stuck with you?

Casey Dreier: I think just meeting the people and having a chance to talk with our Planetary Society members is just always really memorable and seeing how dedicated they are. The students coming down from various colleges who worry about their future as scientists. There are professionals whose careers are threatened. There are people who just love this stuff and who worry they won't be able to have something to love in that same way. It's just all the personal stories and just getting to meet and again, feel that passion from the members which we all share is just a profoundly rewarding experience for me.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: I think it's been a really challenging time for so many of us, not just at The Planetary Society, but in the broader space science community right now. And I've been taking so much heart and so much hope from watching your adventures in DC over the last couple of days. Do you feel like engaging with this, at least for the new people who are among our advocates, is this helping them find more hope in this time as well?

Casey Dreier: For the most part, everyone I talk to comes out of this experience feeling better about the future, better about their democracy, and empowered by this action of going in and themselves having agency. They themselves chose to come here. We train them, we give them talking points and background and information, but at the end of the day, they're the ones doing that communication. They're the ones doing that advocacy and that empowerment lasts. That makes a very positive effect for most people. So the vast majority of people have a very, very positive experience from it and come out wanting to do this again.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: Well, the meetings may be over, but the work definitely isn't. What are the next steps for you guys, but also for our advocates in general?

Casey Dreier: Well, after Jack and I collapse and sleep for seven days, we'll reemerge, the government has to reopen, obviously. NASA can't function, space science can't function in a closed government. It's not good for space. It's not good for NASA. It has to reopen. The sooner the better. After this, it's really about finding is there a pathway to... NASA is not the sticking point. NASA is not going to be what prevents appropriations from moving forward and getting signed into law. So is there a pathway? Can we find a pathway to ensure as this process moves forward, that these best of both worlds from the Senate and House bills that we have seen can combine and move into whatever process allows it to become locked? Does it have to be a giant single package or can there be less controversial aspects of the government funded individually? However that works, we need to make sure that we see this NASA bill ensconced into law and that we have an agreement and an understanding by the White House that this is Congressional intent. Don't try this again.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: Well, if this is going to work, it's going to be because of all the work of all the advocates, all of these organizations that have partnered with us. And at a very basic root level, because of you and Jack and the amazing amount of work that you guys have been doing over the last few months. Behind the scenes, I've been seeing you guys absolutely crushing it. But also, it is quite a lot. So unless you haven't heard it today, thank you from me, but also from all the space fans around the world for the amount of work you're doing. And to everybody else who's helped us with this, it's such an unbelievable effort and I cannot communicate what it's like watching this go on behind the scenes.

Casey Dreier: I appreciate that Sarah, and I really have to emphasize that the real appreciation has to be with the advocates who spent their own time and money to come out and participate, to participate online, the thousands of actions we saw online. The people who didn't sit down and accept this but are pushing back. And at the end of the day, we're not a big lobbyist organization. We're not throwing money around. All we have is our words. We have to try to convince people to bring people together. We can't give donations. We can't support electoral campaign politics. We can only talk about these issues. And so we can't control everything, but we can control if we have done everything we possibly can. And this was the second Day of Action this year larger than we've ever done before. We have left it all out on the field this year. So you can't say it was not for lack of trying. And I'll tell you what, no matter what happens going forward, we will do this year after year as long as it takes.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: Well, we don't have to do this tomorrow. We got a few months before the next Day of Action. So in the meantime, get your sleep. But also just I'm profoundly grateful to everybody involved. This has been a wonderful day.

Casey Dreier: Thank you, Sarah. It has been an amazing day. And to thank you again, all of our advocates, members, supporters online and particularly here with me in Washington DC, just amazing and inspirational.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: Well, thanks so much, Casey. I'll talk to you later.

Casey Dreier: Thanks, Sarah.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: Even after such a long day in such difficult times, there was a sense of quiet optimism among the advocates. They'd made their voices heard. And the message was spreading far beyond Capitol Hill. For all of the policy debates and funding battles, this moment is about something so much bigger, the discoveries that are waiting just beyond our reach. If we protect NASA Science, what worlds might we uncover? What mysteries could we solve in the years ahead? To look toward that future, I'm joined now by Dr. Bruce Betts, The Planetary Society's chief scientist for What's Up.

Hey, Bruce.

Bruce Betts: Hello, Sarah.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: Just holding down the fort here in the LA area while all of our coworkers are out there in DC having a wild adventure.

Bruce Betts: Yeah, so far it's been easier on our end.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: Oh, for sure. But man, seeing all the images coming out of the Slack this morning, everybody organized together. I've never seen that many people in a Day of Action image ever. So-

Bruce Betts: That's because there never have been.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: I know, right?

Bruce Betts: I believe it's at least twice what they've ever had before. And obviously, this year we need it now more than ever.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: Now more than ever. But it makes me really glad that the people I've spoken to over the last few days and just hearing how fired up everyone is and seeing the massive press response as well, this is exactly what I feel like we needed in a really tough time for NASA. Well, I don't want to belabor the sadness of what's going on with NASA right now. But when we work to protect NASA's science programs, we're not just saving spacecraft, we're protecting our ability to answer some of the biggest questions in the universe. So why don't we end off this episode with something a little bit more hopeful. What would you say are some of the most consequential questions in planetary science that we can actually answer in the upcoming decades if we actually manage to get enough funding for NASA?

Bruce Betts: That's a pretty small question. Can you think of anything bigger?

Sarah Al-Ahmed: Yeah. I love to give you just the low ball, easy questions.

Bruce Betts: Let me make one other point about phrasing. It's also, remember, we're not just saving spacecraft. Spacecraft are tools. Humans explore with the tools that are spacecraft. So it's still very much humanity that's exploring, including when you're using robotic spacecraft. And there's a lot of very talented people who are also have been working on these things and learning from them. We don't know what the big questions are that we're going to answer. That's what I've always found really cool about planetary science and astronomy more than most other science disciplines, although they experience it too. They're just surprises. I mean, obviously the life question is something that we pay a lot of attention to, others too. Was there ever life on other worlds in our solar system? Is there other life on worlds in our solar system or in deep space? And so, the key things in our solar system are still Mars and particularly Mars has passed and the ocean worlds that we've discovered with liquid water oceans that have potential life in them. So particularly Europa and Enceladus.

And then the whole field of exoplanets is so new still, and we're getting really good at finding them. We're going to get really better at studying them and understanding them with more tools. And then just the exploration of worlds. So every world in the solar system has generated questions when we answer some questions and we explore them. So you've got things like Enceladus. Enceladus is relatively small but rounded moon. No one was thinking, "Hey, it's probably got a subsurface ocean and geysers or not geysers but spewing material out." Well, that type of experience, I think, we'll continue to have. One other place I'm excited, and particularly if things stay on track and go through is planetary defense, which is in the meaning defense from asteroid impact or cometary impact. And this is a place where we are not only have the potential if things don't derail, we have the potential to prevent the only huge large-scale natural disaster.

We can save lives, literally lots of them with this program and finding more. And we've come so far in the last 25, 30 years, but we still have so far to go. And new spacecraft telescopes, bigger telescopes on earth, more processing power, and more spacecraft visits will allow us to hopefully not have to worry someday. Not that you should lose sleep over it, but without our intervention, there's a 100% chance there will be a dangerous, and damaging, and deadly impact into Earth. It's only a question of when. But we can fix it. Sorry, I was supposed to end on a happy note. We can prevent it. So I'm sorry, that's a random walk through my brain. What about you? What do you got? What did I skip that was really important. What's cool?

Sarah Al-Ahmed: Oh, I think you nailed so many of them. It's just such an exciting time. There are so many things that are right on the edge. And there are specific one-off questions, like are there other worlds in our solar system that we haven't found yet? Or why is Venus the way it is compared to Earth given how similar they were and how they developed? There are these little nitty-gritty specifics, but there're then these huge, huge questions like, are we alone in the universe? Can we defend our planet? And all of these things are within our grasp if we fund it. I don't know, trying to find hope in this moment. And it's been really inspiring to see everyone so fired up about it and carrying what they love about space into DC in the midst of this moment of complete uncertainty, even in the middle of a government shutdown. But that's what we're here for, right? That's why The Planetary Society exists.

Bruce Betts: And to bring people together and get them excited about space exploration. Let's do it.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: Well, luckily it's not hard to get people excited about space. It's all super exciting. But I would say that, right? I'm excited by everything in space.

Bruce Betts: I'm sure no one noticed.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: Absolutely not, not enthusiastic at all. All right, so what is our random space fact this week? And hopefully it is hopeful.

Bruce Betts: Space facts. Okay, I don't know if it's hopeful, but it's relevant, which is how many US Congress members have flown in space?

Sarah Al-Ahmed: Oh.

Bruce Betts: First of all, there were two who flew while they were actively serving in the Congress. Republican Senator Jake Garn and Democratic Member of the House Representative Bill Nelson, who later, a few decades later became NASA administrator, were both part of a program to fly congressmen in space. And so, they actually participated and carried out activities on the shuttle. And then, I should mention the wonderful anomaly that was John Glenn. John Glenn flew before being elected as a senator and then flew later on as a test of flying someone who flew early in their life and late in their life and see how it went.

Then you got Harrison Jack Schmitt from Apollo 17, the only trained geologist who flew to the moon surface so far, and we're almost done. We've got Mark Kelly, who is recently elected, shuttle pilot commander. And then another odd thing elected to Congress but did not serve was Jack Swigert, Apollo 13 Mission member, because he actually unfortunately died of cancer before he could actually be sworn into office. And that's the way it is. Other countries have plenty of other politicians that have flown in space as well after being astronauts. But since our people are sitting there in DC and playing with the glory that is the US Congress, that's their history of flying in space.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: That's actually more people than I would've expected. One of them I've met in person. I was there when Bill Nelson met Bill Nye. Bill and Bill.

Bruce Betts: Bill and Bill. I was going to say they should have a show together, but it would just be so odd.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: It would be. Yeah, that was a cool meeting. But yeah, I'm sure that changes how these people interact with these science and technology committees and everything else. I think we should try to get as many people who have been to space or at least have a space perspective in Congress. Because I think it's not just about supporting these NASA programs, but also that overview effect, that perspective that it gives you on humanity and how we relate to each other. It makes me feel safer and trust people more when I know that they've at least experienced something close to that.

Bruce Betts: All right, everybody. Go out there, look up the night sky and think about how many spacecraft we can fly to the night sky and beyond. Thank you. Good night.

Sarah Al-Ahmed: I want to send a heartfelt thank you to all of the advocates and the partner organizations that joined The Planetary Society in Washington DC. And to the thousands of people around the world who have written and called and signed our international petition. You are making such a huge difference in this fight to help save NASA Science. If you'd like to be part of this effort, you can visit planetary.org/saveNASAScience to learn more and take action. We've reached the end of this week's episode of Planetary Radio, but we'll be back next week with more space science and exploration.

Over the next two weeks, we're going to take you inside NASA's innovative advanced Concept Symposium to learn about some of the amazing ideas people are putting forward to help explore places that we've never gone before. If you love this show, you can get Planetary Radio t-shirts at planetary.org/shop, along with lots of other cool spacey merchandise.

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Mark Hilverda and Rae Paoletta are our associate producers. Casey Dreier hosts our monthly Space Policy Edition, and Mat Kaplan hosts our monthly Book Club Edition. Andrew Lucas is our audio editor. Our theme was composed by Josh Doyle and arranged and performed by Pieter Schlosser. My name is Sarah Al-Ahmed, the host and producer of Planetary Radio. And until next week, ad astra.