The Planetary Society Blog

Well put. I suppose a fair comparison is to see if anyone remembers Snookie in 30 years. Sagan does have considerable staying power. It is regrettable that the airing of Cosmos was a one time PBS event. It would be great if Sagan's magnum opus could be replayed once per generation. Even if it was I suspect it would drown in the din of 500 channels with nothing much on (Snookie exhibit A)
On the bright side Sagan's wisdom and ideas are alive and well I see it everywhere.

Stephen Fry once likened the impact of Oscar Wilde on the literary landscape as being a bit like the Empire State building.

Close up, it is unremarkable: many other buildings crowd it out. As one moves further away, however, those other buildings fall away until only one dominates.

Carl Sagan is a bit like that.

Now, excuse me while I go ogle Snooki.

*Stop that!

This does make sense. Though I agree with the comments above that Sagan has a lot more staying power than probably Snooki ever will. And perhaps that was the point. Those who focus on the Snooki-type will just move on in a year or so to the next Snooki-type. But the people who value Carl Sagan and his work are much more likely to be able to take long views, make scientific connections over time, and not float from celebrity to celebrity with little else in their heads.

Yes, I'm very biased on that point. But a big difference, I think, is substance versus air. And looking at it that way, I still think the above comparison has a lot of power.

While I'm now in my 40's and have no clue what a Snooki is, I do recognise Sagan immeadiately, but only hear his voice impersonated from "My Stepmother is an Alien".

When I think of Sagan what I remember most is his thoughts regarding life on Venus prior to the realisation that it was not just a barren rock, but an incinerator.

Who would I put in Sagans place? Perhaps Michelle Thaller. I find her very inspirational. She did a brilliant presentation for JPL called The Lifes and Deaths of Stars a number of years ago, but that doesn't seem to be online anywhere these days.

Todays society is all about the beautiful people and it's hard for us nerds to become iconic. If you're rich and pretty and film yourself giving BJ's to your boyfriend they give you a TV series to make more money you don't need. If you have any level of intelligence you just aren't sensational enough and nobody cares about you no matter what you have to say. Ahhh, if Sheldon Cooper was but a real boy we'd be saved.

Until a year or so ago, I didn't know who he was, but I did know who she was. And I'm an astronomer.
An astronomer who came from outside the US, who's under 30 and yes, shock horror, occasionally spends time watching reality television.
We need to stop promoting the attitude that if you watch regular TV you're stupid. I find it very offensive. Everyone has their "thing", whether it's awful horror films, watching the Style network all day on a Sunday (yep, that's me), or obsessively watching every astronomy program on PBS. Telling people you can either watch "clever" programs or trash, not both, because we're above that sort of thing isn't going to encourage people to learn more about science. We need to let people know it's OK to do both.
From a postdoc who spends the day working on Spitzer and evenings watching Jerseylicious.

I think Neil deGrasse Tyson deserves more credit than that. His "Cosmic Sermon" (as immortalised in the second Symphony of Science) is up there with most of Sagan's stuff. The only exception may be the "Pale Blue Dot" speech.

Attenborough would certainly be recognised in the UK, as his (superlative) natural history documentaries have been a constant fixture on the BBC for the past 40 years or so.

Sagan perhaps less so - I remember being enthralled by Cosmos as a small boy 30 years ago, despite the absurd scheduling (midnight on a Sunday? Thanks!), but I don't recall any other TV docs featuring him or his work. (I am of course aware of his excellent written works).

There are several people trying to pry the attention of youngsters. Although when I mention any of them; Nye, Filippenko, Tyson, Cox, Kaku, and anyone else I can't think of off the top of my head. But I don't recall the last time I saw any of them on network TV. Science belongs to the 'nerds' as far as the masses are concerned. This current geek chic fad is more about possessing the devices science creates, not the science that makes them work. I hate to say this but what we need is to scrap a project and blow the money on the craziest widest media blitz the science community has ever seen. And don't give it to one person to host or claim, herd the cats together, and create Cosmos to the nth.
I'm in my late 30s, and I would recognize Cousteau, Attenborough, and I love Sagan. I make it a point to make sure everyone I know does too.
Just my .02.

The first comment asks for Sagan's Cosmos series to be replayed once per generation. Although that might not be happening, there are two readily available remedies:
1. Cosmos is downloadable (the internet savvy will know how).
2. I heard that Neil deGrasse Tyson will be remaking a new version of Cosmos. Interview here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixhQoG2fPzQ

...I think the situation is better, largely thanks to the BBC - despite increasing financial pressure, it's still the go-to place for documentaries. Cox, Attenborough and Patrick Moore are all pretty recognisable, there's at least one science show on CBeebies (the BBC channel aimed at children aged under six), and that's before we get onto shows hosted by, say, the Top Gear hosts, with an implicit love of engineering (or a sort of anarchic science based entertainment similar to, say, Mythbusters). Factor in the success of Richard Dawkins (who had a cameo on Doctor Who!) and you've got a media environment where Professor Brian Cox can be trending on Twitter at the same time as the UK's Sookie analogues...

Thanks for this refreshing post Emily.
It is very interesting how the comments drifted toward arguing about who is the next Carl Sagan. There will not be another Carl Sagan, simply because the world has changed and Carl will most likely not be a successful science speaker in our days.
A lot of scientists took over Carl legacy, but what really matters, as you emphasized in your post, is that all of us play a role in propagating science in the mind of our friends, schools and workplaces. A small step in our daily life, or a duty for those who believe in science and progress.
See you at DPS?

"Watching regular TV doesn't make you stupid"?

Perhaps, but it does suggest that you are culturally regressed and easily amused. Reality TV is a cultural wasteland.

When there are so many amazing things out there to see and do and learn, how do you have time for that junk?

Meanwhile, Network TV isn't what it used to be for the youth. That's now the province of the middle aged. The youth have their own communication medium. You're on it.

Er HALOO *Sir Patrick Moore* ?!?
Only the longest running program on astronomy ever! With the same presenter it is the longest CONTINUOUSLY running television PROGRAM!
Brian Cox is a mere babe in arms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sky_at_Night
1957 and still running.
Sorry but your Carl isn't even in the same league wrt communication.

Rather than look down on Snooki I would think that he would enthuse about astronomy and then drag her off to his telescope. Just as soon as the clouds cleared.
Or rather, probably Chris (Galactic Zoo) Lintott his aide de camp. Sir Patrick is not as spry as he once was...
/snark

I don't think we've had anyone else who is both as smart as Sagan and as good a communicator. Isaac Asimov - not a modest man - said he'd only met two people in his life smarter than him, and Carl was one of them. (AI researcher Marvin Minsky was the other.)

First, good post. I have noticed that time-and-again any post about Sagan (regardless of the author) tends to run toward grandiose language with broad strokes about our place in the universe and our responsibilities to educate in the shadow of Sagan's legacy. I do it, too. His memory causes that to happen, and sometimes it's hard to ignore.

However, this post makes me think I need to make a change. As a high-school science teacher, I used to show the first episode of Cosmos to my students each year with an explanation of why Sagan was important to a lot of us older nerds. But I've stopped doing that in recent years. I found it difficult to keep some of the students focused, and in some cases the kids argued that they couldn't tell what was real and what was 'made-up computer stuff'. Also, I've found that his fantastic use of English went over many of their heads, even though I was enwrapped by every word when I was 9. It has become increasingly difficult to ignite their imaginations using Cosmos ...but maybe I'll try it again this year. One more time.

--Thanks, Emily

I'm sorry, but I disagree. Both Bill Nye and Neil Tyson are exactly like Sagan. As I understand it both were students of Sagan during college.

They have their own personalities, but I have to say...when I see one of those Sagan Series videos and then see something Neil Tyson has done similar, I can almost not tell the difference!

Hawking has garnered significant public exposure. He was on The Simpsons!

A well written piece, Emily. These "either/or" comparisons generally do little other than perpetuate a false ivory-tower view of science and drive the general public away. Plenty of people enjoy trashy movies, TV and books as guilty pleasures and also enjoy informative and educating content for very different reasons. And they are intelligent enough to know the difference. I'm glad you called them on it in this instance.

Elon Musk. He is controversial, successful, moderately famous .. and he is hell bent on conquering space and making it available for everyone ( among other world-changing plans of his, like populating earth with solar powered cities and electric vehicles )

He is also an engineer, but not a scientist, and a pretty crappy communicator.

More people know who Snooki is but do not know who Sagan is. For years I have always said we will pay an average ball player millions of dollars a year but will pay an excellent teacher as little as possible. It is a shame that Snooki makes more money than most of us. Over time Carl Sagan will still be remembered as well as many other great minds of our time.

An interesting development here in SoCal is the showing of the COSMOS series once a month at a cinema in San Juan Capistrano. Each episode is shown along with a short presentation by a local scientist/astronomer who speaks to the topics presented in the episode and takes questions from the audience. More detail here-> http://bit.ly/lYpFKp

They should have Mat & Bruce take over where Sagan left off. ;-)

This comparison is not offered as science, it is offered a social satire. In the context of social satire, it hits the mark.

Applying the appropriate measure is fairly critical in assessing the efficacy of anything. You make several excellent points, if this satire was intended to present a scientifically valid study of pop-culture attentions and priorities. Clearly, it isn't.

On the bright side, while many might not have seen the Cosmos series, there are people out there bringing it to life once again along with the works of other influential public scientific figures... Just in ways that the average person might enjoy!

Take for instance John Boswell (MelodySheep of YouTube fame). He has turned clips from Cosmos as well as speeches given by various scientists and speakers into beautiful music.

http://youtu.be/zSgiXGELjbc

Another UK presenter - James Burke. Most famous for "Connections", but also a presenter on "Tomorrows World" for many years.

If you listen to the Astronomycast podcast you will find Pamela is an excellent communicator of astronomy and science. She is also a polished public speaker.

Since no-one else has done it yet, I might point out that one of Sagan's works was made into a pretty good movie.

Australian contributions to the science popularity stakes*:

- Julius Sumner Miller (scary old curmudgeon that he was!)
- Robyn Williams (Long-time presenter for The Science Show)
- Dr Karl** (sleek geek #1: Adam Spencer is #2)
- Tim Flannery (although in these fraught times, he is probably more loathed than loved. Seriously, though. Read 'Here on Earth': the most jaw-dropping gosh/wow thing I've read since Clarke's 'Profiles of the Future')

* Whaddya mean? 'Where's Australia?'
** Dr. Karl's shirts, at least.

I would just like to post a comment in defense of the younger generation, since no one seems to have done so (and if someone did and I missed it when I read through these, I apologize!):

I came across this page because my dad shared the link, and I'm glad he did. I can honestly say I've never watched "Jersey Shore" and am only aware of who Snooki is because...well...it's hard to be a college student and NOT know her name! Carl Sagan, David Attenborough, Neil deGrasse Tyson, and the others mentioned above however, I am much more familiar with. I grew up watching their shows on PBS and really appreciate what they have contributed to the world. In particular, I have always been very fond of David Attenborough's documentaries and, for awhile, wanted to become a zoologist because of him. I have only been on this planet for a little over two decades, but I can still appreciate these men and their life's work.

After I got this link, I posted it on my facebook page and within minutes two of my friends had "liked" it. I can think of at least a dozen more people my age who will appreciate the link when they see it. I've only had the link up for around twenty minutes so far, but already two people my age have appreciated it. I know for a fact that neither of those people is making a living in the world of science, nor am I, but we still know the person on the right has no significance whatsoever when compared with Carl Sagan. We might watch some junky TV, but there are still quite a few of us from the younger generation who have been left relatively unscathed by the media!

Also...for the record, I would like to thank my father not only for sharing this link, but also for exposing me to so many scientific wonders as a child. I DO know how to find Jupiter, I've seen the Space Station fly overhead, and I've opened up my fair share of space books over the years, because I was brought up to do so! I'm a "twenty-something" who knows how great David Attenborough, Carl Sagan, and all the others were and still are, and I'm proud of that fact!

I'm very happy I don't even know who's that woman.

Luckily here in the UK I dont know Snooki but we have many similar. The probem is simply getting science programs on TV. The ratings war doesnt help make good TV! I'm glad to say I think its been realised here in the UK that we are not inspiring enough would be scientists or engineers as the BBC has been making more science programs recently. Which is why its so important to keep the BBC funded by a licence fee and not by advertising.

On a side note I'd like to mention Jim Al-Khalili, who I'm starting to think is a better presenter than Brian Cox. Cox seems to be becoming a geek sex symbol. Mind you he gets more women watching :-)

I, for one, think Emily herself is the new 'Carl'. She's intelligent, enthusiastic, and makes science fun and wonderous. I loved her live blog during the landing of Pheonix, she was daring (sneaking into the meeting with her laptop).
I would watch more of her.

Cosmos is still "airing" 24 hours/day if you knew where to find it.

Like here:
http://www.free-tv-video-online.me/internet/cosmos/

Or here: http://alturl.com/vvoa7
Cosmos have about 114 seeders since several years, that means it's very popular.

If Carl Sagan lived today he would be accused of being involved in the Climate Change Conspiracy, a militant atheist who wages war on Christmas, and an evil So!@#$%t when he suggests we need more funding for education and science.

That I'm only partly joking is a source of despair if anything.

Carl Sagan is my idol and i figured out who is snookis(?) By looking at this blog....

We have been spending more and more on education, and people are more ignorant than ever. No idea who the chick is but frankly, to show a picture of some dead egotist as if he holds the key to all of human enlightenment is a sick joke.